A Jewish German conversation

Worldwork Journalism - let's talk!

Listen here to our conversation

My after-reflection - Philipa

Doing this podcast with Stephie …2 women, one German, one Jewish ….felt such an honour. To have the time to talk, listen, share and be curious to ask questions that maybe I’ve carried with me consciously and unconsciously for a long time.

Of course, I know,  but hearing Stephie say….but there were no Jews to be friends with … they had been killed or left Germany….I felt devastated, it’s so shocking. I feel deep sadness to imagine how could this happen and to hear it so directly from Stephie. I realise also that I never think of younger Germans as being Jewish.

Doing this podcast while holding the war in Gaza and the Occupation in Palestine so close in my heart feels very hard….a part of me is wondering who am I to talk about antisemitism when the Israeli army and state that claims to represent Jewish people seem to hold so much power creating such a danger to themselves, to Palestinians and to the world. How can I talk about anti-Semitism when there is a genocide of the Palestinian people happening now? 

When we finished the podcast Stephie and I sat together…2 women, German and Jewish. We were both silent. Then Stephie said sorry to me for what Germany had done to Jews in the past. Such sadness and at the same time a deep healing.  In that moment and in my connection to Stephie and our conversation, I felt I could love Germany and also deeply love my Jewish self. 

My after-reflection - Stephanie

Beginning this year Philipa asked me: Can we have a conversation, I want to know how it is/has been for you to be German.

Sure, yes, Let’s talk.

Starting the conversation I felt my voice shy and weaker than normal, and there were moments I could not say much more, then give space to shame, acknowledge the darkness of what happened and stay present in the conversation at the same time … 

Did you have a Jewish friend when you were young? No, I did not … at the time.

How much do I feel responsible for what happened? An important question. And how important it is, to also not get stuck in this role and still speak out about the human disaster that Israel’s decisions are causing in Gaza these days.

I notice how the history, and my relating to this dark period informs my deep wish to find the courage to speak out, to make unspoken visible, and to work with the tensions this courage creates.

When we finished the recording, Philipa asked me: how do you feel about our talk?

Heaviness on my chest, I could not easily answer, I needed to connect to this sensation … grief. Giving space to it, tears started running down my chin and I said: ‚I am so sorry, what my people did to yours.‘ And I see Philipa in tears too. It is good after this open, playful and challenging talk, to meet in the depth of the pain, not to forget, but to release a bit of it.

Healing and deep connecting across past, present and future identities.

Listen here to our conversation

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Who are we?

Philipa Bragman lives in the north of UK and works with people from different communities across UK and internationally, supporting social justice, equality, inclusion and human rights. She uses Forum Theatre and Process Work, exploring new ways of supporting people from marginalised communities to have a more powerful and equal voice in society.

Stephanie Bachmair (B.ONFIRE/DD Alliance) is a communication enthusiast, facilitator, leadership coach, and process work diplomat. She supports individuals, teams, and organizations in exploring and crafting their stories, telling them with impact, relating to their audience, and increasing their transformative power through dialogue. 

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If you want more

• All of Us in All of This Together, 7days Process Work & Worldwork Clinic with Deep Democracy Institute in Granada, Spain 7-13th of Oct. More info here

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